Here's my first look at areas in which the two theories agree and agree to disagree. I've tried to reflect both sides as accurately as possible. If anyone has more or different ideas, I'm open to editing this. In the interest of simplicity, I haven't provided links, but the material is widely available. Post a comment or email me if you want to know more about a particular item.
Proposition
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Mesoamerica
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Moroni’s America
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1. The most important aspect of the Book of Mormon is its message.
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Agree
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Agree
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2. The Book of Mormon is an inspired translation of an actual ancient
record of actual people who lived in the real world.
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Agree
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Agree
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3. The ultimate objective of our research/writing is to motivate
people to read the Book of Mormon and strengthen their faith in Christ as a result.
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Agree
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Agree
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4. Another objective of our research/writing is to help people better
understand the text of the book by understanding its setting, culture and context.
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Agree
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Agree
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5. The Church has no official position on where Book of Mormon events
took place.
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Agree
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Agree
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6. In Letter VII, Oliver Cowdery identified the valley west of the
Hill Cumorah in New York as the location of the final battles of the Nephites
and Jaredites.
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Agree
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Agree
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7. Joseph Smith instructed his scribes to copy Oliver’s letters,
including Letter VII, into his journal as part of his life story.
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Agree
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Agree
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8. Joseph Smith gave permission to Benjamin Winchester to republish
Oliver’s letters, including Letter VII, in his newspaper called the Gospel Reflector
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Agree
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Agree
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9. Don Carlos republished Oliver’s letters, including Letter VII, in
the 1842 Church newspaper called the Times and Seasons (T&S).
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Agree
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Agree
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10. On Sept. 9, 1841, Dr. Bernhisel gave Wilford Woodruff a copy of
the Stephens' popular archaeology books about Central America to give to Joseph Smith
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Agree
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Agree
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11. On Nov. 5, 1841, Wilford Woodruff wrote a letter to Dr. Bernhisel
that is not extant.
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Agree
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Agree
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12. A thank-you letter dated Nov. 16, 1841, was sent to Bernhisel on Joseph
Smith’s behalf. No one knows who wrote the letter because the handwriting
remains unidentified and no journals mention it.
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Agree
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Agree
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13. A series of editorials were published in the T&S during 1842
that linked the Book of Mormon to archaeological findings in North and
Central America. They cited the Stephens books and archaeology books by Josiah Priest. All were published either anonymously or over the signature
of Ed. for Editor.
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Agree
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Agree
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14. From February 15 through October 15, 1842, the boilerplate of the
T&S said the paper was edited, printed, and published by Joseph Smith.
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Agree
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Agree
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15. Joseph Smith originally obtained the plates from a stone box
Moroni constructed out of stone and cement in the Hill Cumorah in New York.
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Agree
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Agree
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16. Brigham Young said Oliver told him that he (Oliver)
and Joseph had made at least two visits to a room in the Hill Cumorah in New York that contained
piles of records and ancient Nephite artifacts.
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Agree
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Agree
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17. Mormon said he buried all the Nephite records in the Hill Cumorah
(Morm. 6:6), the scene of the final battles of the Nephites, except he kept out the plates he gave to his son Moroni to finish the record.
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Agree
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Agree
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18. D&C 128:20 reads, “And again, what do we hear? Glad tidings
from Cumorah! Moroni, an angel from heaven, declaring the fulfilment of the
prophets—the book to be revealed,” followed by references to other events that took place in New York.
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Agree
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Agree
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19. The geography passages in the Book of Mormon are subject to a
variety of interpretations.
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Agree
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Agree
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20. To date, apart from Moroni’s stone box and the plates and other
objects Joseph Smith possessed and showed to the Witnesses, no artifact or
archaeological site that can be directly linked to the Book of Mormon has
been found anywhere.
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Agree
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Agree
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21. Cultural characteristics can be discerned from the text.
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Agree
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Agree
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22. The New Jerusalem Ether wrote about is located in Jackson County,
Missouri.
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Agree
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Agree
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23. Mayan civilization collapsed around 800 A.D. and Mayans migrated
to North America, where they lived for several hundred years before returning
to Central America.
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Agree
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Agree
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24. The Newark Ohio earthworks are the largest earthworks in the
world and demonstrate knowledge of astronomy and geometry.
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Agree
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Agree
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25. There were a million ancient mounds in North America before the
Europeans arrived.
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Agree
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Agree
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26. There are two million skeletons buried in mounds in Illinois
alone.
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Agree
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Agree
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27. As an Apostle and Church Historian, Joseph Fielding Smith said the two-Cumorah theory caused members to become confused and disturbed in their faith in the Book of
Mormon. He reiterated this when he was President of the Quorum of the Twelve in the 1950s in his book Doctrines of Salvation.
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Agree
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Agree
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28. The land of Zarahemla is north of the land of Nephi and lower in
elevation than the land of Nephi.
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Agree
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Agree
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And here's where we agree to disagree
Topic
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Mesoamerica
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Moroni’s America
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1. Location of the Hill Cumorah
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The hill in New York had nothing to do with ancient Nephites or
Jaredites (apart from Moroni traveling to the area). The real Hill Cumorah which contains Mormon’s
repository of records and was the scene of the final battles is elsewhere.
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The
hill in New York is the actual Hill Cumorah/Ramah where both the Nephites and
the Jaredites were destroyed. It also
contained Mormon’s repository of the Nephite records.
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2. Two-Cumorah theory described
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There are two Cumorahs. The one in New York where Joseph Smith found
the plates was just the place where Moroni buried his record. Unknown early
Mormons gave this hill the name Cumorah and Joseph Smith later adopted this
tradition. The real Cumorah where Mormon deposited the Nephite records is the
scene of the final battles and it is in Mesoamerica.
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There
is only one Cumorah and it is in New York.
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3. Joseph Fielding Smith’s comments on the two-Cumorah theory
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Joseph Fielding Smith’s criticisms of the two-Cumorah theory are
invalid because 50 years ago, someone heard a BYU professor say Pres. Smith
told him he could teach whatever he wanted about Cumorah.
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Joseph
Fielding Smith’s criticisms of the two-Cumorah theory are valid, have caused and continue to cause members to become confused and disturbed in their faith of the Book of Mormon.
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4. Oliver Cowdery’s Letter VII
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Oliver Cowdery was speculating and was factually wrong about the New
York location of the Hill Cumorah.
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Oliver
Cowdery stated a fact about the New York Cumorah based on his own experience
in Mormon’s repository as related to Brigham Young and others.
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5. Anonymous T&S article, Sept/Oct 1842
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The articles linking the Book of Mormon to Central America were
written, or at least approved by, Joseph Smith
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The
articles linking the Book of Mormon to Central America were not written,
approved of, or even seen by Joseph Smith prior to publication
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6. T&S Editor
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Joseph was a hands-on editor of the T&S
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Joseph
was a nominal editor only. The paper was actually edited by William Smith
and/or W.W. Phelps.
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7. Book of Mormon overall geography
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The text describes an overall hourglass shape.
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The
text does not describe an overall hourglass shape. Instead, Cumorah is a pin in the map in New York and Zarahemla is a pin in the map in Iowa.
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8. Setting in Central America vs. North America
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The description in the text best fits someplace in Central America,
including Guatemala and Mexico.
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The
description in the text best fits North America, from Florida to New York and
west to Missouri and Iowa.
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9. Cultural elements in the text
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The text describes an ancient Mesoamerican culture. Towers in the text refer to massive stone pyramids. Horses may be tapirs. The Nephites sacrificed agouti or other large rodents.
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The
text describes an ancient North American culture. Towers in the text refer to wooden towers. Horses are horses. The Nephites strictly observed the Law of Moses, including species.
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10. Joseph Smith’s knowledge
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Joseph did not leave a first-hand record of a revelation about Book of Mormon geography, so he had no revelation or inspiration regarding Book of Mormon
geography
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Joseph
Smith knew where the Book of Mormon events took place because Moroni had
shown him, as mentioned in the Wentworth letter and by his mother Lucy.
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11. “Plains of the Nephites” (Joseph's letter to Emma refers to Ohio, Indiana and Illinois as the "plains of the Nephites")
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Joseph speculated about a location not specifically mentioned in the text ("the plains of the Nephites").
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Joseph
recognized the plains referred to in the text of the Book of Mormon; i.e., "meet them upon the plains between the two cities" (Alma 52:20); "pitch their tents in the plains of Nephihah" (Alma 62:18) and "battle against them, upon the plains" (Alma 62:19).
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12. Zelph
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Zelph was a warrior killed in Illinois who was known to some of Lehi’s
descendants who migrated northward from Mesoamerica into the Hinterland (areas not covered by the text)
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Zelph
was a warrior in the final battles of the Nephites, killed in Illinois
between Zarahemla and Cumorah.
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13. Location of Zarahemla
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Zarahemla is located somewhere in Mexico or Guatemala; D&C 125:3
does not refer to the Nephite Zarahemla
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Zarahemla
is located across from Nauvoo as indicated by D&C 125:3 (near Montrose
Iowa)
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14. River Sidon
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Because the land of Nephi is south of the land of Zarahemla and
people travel down to the land of Zarahemla from Nephi, and because the river
Sidon flows past the city of Zarahemla, the River Sidon flows north. Sidon is
the Umacita or Grijalva river in Mesoamerica
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Because
the land of Nephi is south of the land of Zarahemla and people travel down to
the land of Zarahemla from Nephi, the river between the two lands flows
North. This is the Tennessee River, unnamed in the text. The text says that the river Sidon flows past the
city of Zarahemla and along the land of Zarahemla, but not that it goes to the land of Nephi. These descriptions fits the Iowa location; Sidon is the upper
Mississippi River.
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15. Correspondences in Central America between BoM and ancient cultures
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Many correspondences suggest the BoM took place in Central America,
including Mayan banners, pyramids, stone temples, warfare, symbols of the tree
of life, state-level society, etc.
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These
correspondences are typical of most cultures and, to the extent they are
unique to BoM, they reflect culture brought to Central America from North
America when the Mayans returned after 900 AD.
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16. Jaredites
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The Jaredites lived in Central America and were destroyed at the Hill
Cumorah (Ramah) in Mexico
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The
Jaredites likely expanded throughout the western hemisphere and only those who lived in “this north country” were Ether's ancestors who were discussed in the Book of Ether and were destroyed at Cumorah
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17. Presence of ancient writing
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The text requires the presence of ancient writing systems, which are
found only in Mesoamerica
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The
text excludes the presence of ancient writing systems because Lamanites
destroyed any records they could find, which is why Mormon had to hide the
plates.
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18. Western Hemisphere setting
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Although Joseph merely speculated about BoM geography, he knew it
took place somewhere in the Western Hemisphere
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Joseph
knew by revelation that the Book of Mormon took place in the Western
Hemisphere because he identified the plains of the Nephites, identified the western tribes of Indians as Lamanites, etc.
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19. 1842 Wentworth letter statement that the “Lamanites are Indians in this country.”
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This refers to all indigenous people in the Western Hemisphere.
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Joseph was writing from Nauvoo, Illinois, to Mr. Wentworth who lived in Chicago, Illinois. Joseph's statement refers to the Native American Indians in Illinois and what was then the United States.
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20. 1830-31 Mission to the Lamanites (D&C 28, 30 and 32)
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Early Mormons believed the American Indians were Lamanites, but the
term actually refers to all indigenous people in the Americas
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Referred
specifically to those tribes they visited (and other culturally connected
tribes) in New York, Ohio and Missouri
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21. Archaeological evidence in North America between BoM and ancient cultures
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The archaeology in North America during BoM times shows a tribal level society, but BoM describes
a state-level society
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The archaeology shows a primarily tribal level society but also a long-lost state-level
society with monumental architecture, just as BoM describes
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22. Modern prophets/apostles have identified Lamanites in Latin America
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These statements corroborate the Mesoamerican setting.
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These
statements are not limited to Mesoamerica and reflect post-Book of Mormon
migrations (Mayans moving north after 800 AD, then returning to Mesoamerica).
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23. DNA evidence
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All known DNA in Mesoamerican is Asian in origin, but DNA evidence is
inconclusive; cannot prove or disprove the Book of Mormon.
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Only
northeastern (Great Lakes) Indian tribes have DNA other than Asian; dating of
X2 haplotype (Middle-Eastern) remains an open issue because scientists currently say the X2 haplotype appeared in the Great Lakes region thousands of years before Lehi.
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24. Promised land covenant
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Promised land and covenant land includes entire Western hemisphere
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Promised
land and covenant land refers to the United States
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25. Statements recorded by Wilford Woodruff and Martha Coray and attributed to Joseph Smith say that Zion is all of North and South America
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These statement mean Lehi’s descendants filled the hemisphere, but BoM
took place in a limited geography (Mesoamerica)
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These statements originally meant Northern and Southern states, but Zion is anywhere the pure
in heart live. Winchester’s wing concept of the continents of North and South
America was adopted by Hyrum Smith and successors, then applied retroactively
(Wilford Woodruff, Martha Coray)
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26. Uto-Aztecan languages have Hebrew and Egyptian influence
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These language influences show transoceanic interaction with Indians in western U.S. and
Mexico.
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These language influences show transoceanic interaction with Indians in western U.S. and Mexico, but
not on Mayans. In addition, Algonquin (Great Lakes Indians) languages also have Hebrew and Egyptian
influence.
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THIS MAY JUST BE THE SIMPLEST DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE MATTER!!!!!! THANK YOU for making this SOOOOOOO clear!!!!!!!! (o;`~
ReplyDeleteAs usual- you make all attempts to make it murky so clear. But some still seem to prefer "murky." Too hard to admit one might have been wrong.
ReplyDeleteJonathan is right on. These common sense differences are fantastic. The Book of Mormon events happened in Moroni's america
ReplyDelete